Q&A with Devi

At first, as a preamble. I want to submit a bit of own words of Papa Swami Ramdas, one the greatest mystics and saints of India, and after that - His discussions with Devi Herself: 

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The true way  is not a specified cut and dry method. It does not consist in joining any cult or society, in ceremonies, rituals, or bizarre phenomena. The path is simple if it can be called a path. Invite God who is all love and mercy to take you up and transform you into His radiant and blissful child. Permit His grace to purify, vitalise and take possession of every part of your being. Surrender your all to Him and be conscious of His presence within you and without you.

If you are a real spiritual aspirant, your longing for Him should be sufficiently intense to call down His grace. You should be free from the illusions of this ephemeral world. Your soul should hunger to realise its inherent divine nature. There is no purpose gained by calling yourself this or that, and by donning robes of a particular religious denomination. Masks are useless. Pretension and hypocrisy is self-deception. Break off from all clutches. Come out from the cages of your own making. Come into the open with an unfettered mind, and with the ego vanquished, resign yourself to the supreme Truth residing within you. Let your vision expand and envelope the universe and beyond. Let your heart embrace all beings in the folds of infinite love. Let your body work imbued with the omnipotent power of the Divine. Let every atom of your frame thrill with spiritual ecstasy and produce universal harmony. All else is unprofitable talk. All other ways lead nowhere. Do not be deceived.
Do not be a slave of wealth, name and fame. All earthly attainments and possessions pass away. Make God your aim and your goal. You are one with Him. Know this and attain real happiness and peace.

Religion is a matter of experience. Merely by becoming a member of a church, creed or sect, a person cannot be entitled to this experience. By reading any amount of scriptures and sacred books he cannot obtain this experience. By the obervance of rites, ceremonies, or worship a man cannot come by this experience. Spiritual realisation is a question of individual effort and struggle. The man of true religion when he is on the path, is mainly concerned with his own internal struggle for liberation and peace.

A steady, persevering and concentrated effort and struggle alone can lead the aspirant to the realisation of God. So long as a man is hankering after the pleasures of the senses, his progress on the path is slow and erratic. He must be undaunted in his endeavour and determined in his purpose. He must leave no stone unturned to subdue and eventually eradicate the impure passions of his heart and mind. A purified and enlightened Buddhi alone can entitle the Sadhaka to enter the kingdom of eternity.

What is required principally is the withdrawal of the mind from without to within, which means that the restless and roaming nature of the mind must be totally curbed by right thought, right contemplation and right meditation. The mind has to settle down and its uncontrolled dynamics must be brought under subjection. Perseverance and an unflagging endeavour are the qualities of a true aspirant or seeker of Truth. Lassitude, idleness and heedlessness are the enemies of spiritual progress. Awareness, watchfulness and effort are the true qualities of a Sadhaka.

Give up the notion that you are the doer. It is the Divine Shakti that propels you to all action. Root out all doubts, and rise above the Dwandwas such as joy and grief, gain and loss, honour and dishonour, friend and foe, virtue and sin, etc. Take it that God alone is - who is Shakti or Prakriti in form, change, movement and action, and who is Shiva or Purusha as the formless, immutable, unmoving, actionless, all-pervading Spirit. Shakti in movement and action stands for infinite love and bliss, and Shiva for absolute peace. Purusha and Prakriti are the two eternal aspects of Purushottama who is both these and beyond them. Enjoy the perfect calm and peace as Purusha, the witness, and the bliss of universal love as Prakriti or Shakti.

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By practice or Abhyas you can attain everything you aspire to. What is needed is determination and perseverance. Don’t feel weak. The infinite power of God is within you. In all practices draw strength from this source. Nothing can be achieved without struggle and effort. To control the mind you require indomitable energy. This you can gain by a steady practice. If at first you cannot fix your mind by Japa, don’t be disheartened; continue Japa with persistence and you will gradually find that the restless nature of the mind is quelled. Court solitude during off hours, and the society of the devotees of God. You need not keep account of Japa. This will distract your mind. Have the Name of God always on your lips. Don’t read literature that disturbs your mind. Have system, regularity, and discipline in your life. Have meditation or silent mental repetition in a place free from noise. Rise early. Don’t fritter away your mental and physical energies. Be moderate in all things that you do.
Your progress depends on yourself. Truth cannot be handed over by one to the other. Each has to work for it by his own initiative and strength; because Truth is nowhere else, but in each one of you. Believe God’s blessings are ever on you. March forward and reach the goal of immortality and peace-a state which is your own real being.

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The end and aim of all spiritual Sadhanas is to merge your individuality in the great universal Reality beyond name, form and movement. So, enter still deeper in meditation so that your body-consciousness may entirely leave you, thus, granting you an experience of the Nirguna aspect of God. Let all the waves of Sankalpa and Vikalpa be totally subdued. Transcend all sounds, lights and forms that appear before your mental vision in meditation. After gaining this realization of the inmost truth of your being, come out of it with a transformed vision that beholds every being, creature and thing in the visible manifestation, as the image of that great Truth whom you have experienced in the depths of meditation. See the whole Prakriti and the power that works in it as belonging to the Divine Mother- -Shakti who is the manifest aspect of the Lord who is both this aspect and also the unmanifest, unaffected, invisible, all- pervading, motionless, changeless, all-peaceful and ever blissful Truth. Feel thereafter all your actions and thoughts, all your impulses and feelings, as the expressions of the Divine Mother- Shakti Herself. Now you will know that the ego no longer exists in you and all your actions start only from the great universal centre- Shakti. This is the height of realization which you have to reach. March onward until you attain to this highest goal. May the Lord grant you courage and strength and lead you to this loftiest consummation of life.

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Truly when you become the smallest child of the Divine Mother, you merge your little individuality in Her cosmic personality. Here you realize that the Mother and the child are one. Here again in your play as a child, if you wish to remain so, you are ever basking in the sunshine of Her divine grace and protection. Mother is no mother if you do not understand Her in the true light, and submit to Her will and guidance in all matters. Really, what She wills is ever for your good. To revolt against Her will always knocks out of you a good deal of your strength and peace. This Divine Mother is the Heart of your heart, the Soul of your soul. Being universal, She is the supreme deity ever having Her place and seat within you. Her revelation of the world-phenomena is simply marvellous. Her sweet and gracious presence, Her smiling face, Her ever guiding and protecting hand are seen everywhere. Her dazzling form is the sole attraction of your eyes. Her melodious and soothing voice is the most charming music for your ears. To serve Her, that is, to do all things in Her name, for Her sake, is the most blissful service you could render. Oh! the Mother is your all in all. May Her light ever shine on the world. May Her light ever dawn in the hearts of all creatures, and awaken them to the knowledge of Her invincible and all-beneficent existence and power!

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Aim at the universal vision, i.e., behold the manifested universe as the very form and image of the Lord seated in your heart. Transcend all names, forms, lights, sounds etc., and merge yourself in the infinite ocean of divine peace and joy. Rise above the body idea, the Gunas and all mental states and enjoy the bliss and freedom of immortality. You and the supreme Lord are not different. You are His essence, nay His very form, because there is none and nothing but He. This is the truth. Realize.
The way to escape from the clutches of Dwandwas, when you live in the consciousness of the world of name and form, is to behold all things and objects as the revealed forms of the one Eternal Truth. The divine power emanating from the Truth has manifested as the entire universe. All movements and activities of Prakriti are Hers. All your thoughts and play of the senses and body are Her lila. Behold everything as God Himself-manifest. By surrendering up your ego to the Divine Shakti you can attain to this vision.
This vision will absolve you from all doubts, and your actions will have the nature of spontaneity and, therefore, full of bliss and ecstasy. The light of God will now dazzle in your eyes and you will behold Him everywhere. The Nirguna Swarup of the Atman and the Saguna Swarup of the universe will be the same to you. Verily, they are the two aspects of the same Reality. Be the child of the Eternal Mother- ever free and blissful-feeling conscious all the time that the Mother and the child are one Truth, although, in the play of love, they are assumed to be different. This is the supreme goal, the height of God-realization. “Vasudevah Sarvamithi” be your realization.

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Ram has triumphed. Truth must triumph. Das is permeated through and through by Ram. Ram is pervaded through and through by Das. The lover and the beloved have become one. Jiva has got merged in Shiva. Atma has been realised as Paramatma. The servant has become one with the master. The child has lost itself in the mother. The realisation of oneness is complete. What a consummation! Nothing higher remains to be attained. The halo of Truth rests dazzling over all, and defies all. His golden touch has transmuted all into shining gold. O, what a grandeur! What magnificence! Unutterable bliss, ungazable brilliance, untastable sweetness! Because He is bliss - light - sweetness itself!

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS WITH DEVI: 

Q: What is the goal?

A: To attain Ram. [as Ramdas said, "All Mantras have the same power. The Shiva Mantra is as powerful as the Ram Mantra. Don't make any distinction between Rama and Shiva. The name stands for the Purushottama of the Gita - who is Purusha and Prakriti at once and also the Supreme One beyond both. Meditate on His infinite attributes. Seek to realize Him in your heart, and then everywhere in the universe. Do not cling to any form. Do not doubt and bring up any questions. God in your heart is your guide and protector. He is your father, mother and all"]

Q: What is self-surrender?

A: Resignation to the Will of God.

Q: How can we attain this?

A: By continued remembrance of God.

Q: What is Ram?

A: He is at once Light, Love and Bliss. He is the only eternal Truth.

Q: Where can we seek Him?

A: Seek and find Him in ourselves and in the whole universe about us. God has manifested Himself as the universe. The one supreme Paramatman, who is by nature formless, and without qualities and ever existent, has assumed the variety of forms that we see in the universe. Let us see Him in all things and beings as the One Imperishable Reality.

Q: What is the result of self-surrender?

A: Self-surrender brings pure everlasting bliss.

Q: How?

A: When the human will is given up for the Divine Will, all the responsibility of the instrument - the devotee - ceases and the consciousness of the individual ego is merged in the Divine consciousness. Then all his actions, thoughts and words emanate from the Divine source, leaving him entirely free from all doubts, desires and bonds. In fact, the devotee becomes filled with supreme bliss, on which alone his mind constantly dwells. The ego being absent, there is nothing on which his actions, words and thoughts can leave any impression. He is now free from all sin and sorrow. He is merely a witness, dispassionate and blissful, of the grand play or Lila of God - the universe and all that is in it.

Q: Can we see God?

A: Yes, we can see Him in His works; in His manifestation He pervades all. There is no place where He is not. Every object is none other than He.

Q: If God is one why does He appear in different names and forms?

A: The One has appeared as many for the working out of His Lila or play.

Q: What underlies the appearance of many?

A: The qualities, Satwa, Rajas and Tamas. The objects appear different accordingly as any one of these qualities is predominant in it.

Q: What relation do these qualities bear to our complete resignation to the Will of God?

A: In the condition of perfect resignation to the Will of God, the devotee rises above the three qualities and becomes essentially Divine. He becomes a mere instrument in the hands of the Almighty God. He then fulfils the work of God; he is made to exist only for that purpose. Truly he is then an incarnation of God Himself as Sri Krishna, Jesus Christ, Mohammed, Buddha, Sri Krishna Chaitanya and other Mahapurushas.

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Q: O Mother, Your name is Ram. What is Your form since name and form always go together?

A: I am without name and form. To realise me, as without these, O Ramdas, you have first to assume me as having them.

Q: You are one, but the universe is full of diversity; it is made up of millions of forms. How is this, Mother?

A: I am one, formless and nameless. I choose to be many. Hence I have to assume forms without which I cannot be many.

Q: You are eternal, but how is it that Your forms are perishable?

A: It is as it should be. When One is real, many must be unreal. So form is born, remains for a time and then dies: birth, change, growth and dissolution - that is the nature of forms.

Q: How can You exist, O Mother, when Your forms perish?

A: Just as, child, the gold remains even after the ornament is melted, during which process it loses its form, as also in the case of a lump of ice, which loses its form under heat, but the water, of which it is made, remains.

Q: Why did You wish to be many?

A: I desired to have a play, and a play cannot be, unless there be more than one. Hence I had to manifest myself as many.

Q: What do You gain by this play?

A: Anandam - supreme bliss.

Q: How can You speak of bliss, O Mother, when the world is seen to be full of misery?

A: Understand, my child, it is I myself acting as miserable, happy, angry, etc.

Q: How can You be acting as miserable and remain unaffected at the same time?

A: Acting is always an appearance; it does not affect the actor. An actor pretends to be weeping while all the time he remains internally, at heart, unmoved. So also with all other feelings and emotions.

Q: What is this play of Yours made of?

A: It is made of three qualities, Satwa, Rajas and Tamas - harmony, activity and dullness.

Q: How is variety seen in this diversity?

A: By countless modes of combinations of these three qualities. These three Gunas make together what is called Prakriti.

Q: O Mother, are You separate from Prakriti?

A: O child, Prakriti exists because of me, but I am not in Prakriti.

Q: Is Prakriti eternal?

A: Individually not, but collectively she is. Bear in mind always that Prakriti has only a relative existence and not absolute. I am the only Absolute.

Q: If sorrow and pain are unreal, why should there be sympathy, compassion, charity, love, truth, goodness, purity and such virtues in this world?

A: Realisation of the state in which this world is witnessed as a play, can be attained only by recognizing me as one, appearing as many. The three Gunas have to be transcended before absolute unity is realised. Now this oneness is attained only through the practice of universal love, purity, truth, compassion and charitable deeds.

Q: What is this realisation?

A: This realisation makes you only a blissful witness of the play of the three Gunas and thus remain always free from all the effects of pleasure and pain and other pairs of opposites, yourself, untouched and unaffected. Then it is that you will have realised the fact, ‘You are as myself’.

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Q: Now, what is action, O Mother?

A: A movement of the mind in thoughts, of the tongue in talk, and of the body in deeds, is action.

Q: What relation do words, deeds and thoughts bear to each other?

A: Sometimes thought alone works, without expressing itself into words and deeds; at other times thought works expressing itself out into words only. Again thought works itself out into words and deeds; and lastly thought works out directly into deeds.

Q: How many kinds of action are there?

A: Action is of two kinds - personal and impersonal - Sakama and Nishkama.

Q: What is Sakama or personal action?

A: Action, performed with the desire for the fruit of it, is Sakama.

Q: What is Nishkama or impersonal action?

A: Action, performed without the desire for the fruit of it, is Nishkama.

Q: Which is the proper action?

A: Nishkama action is the proper action.

Q: Why?

A: Because Nishkama action alone frees one from the fetters of pain and grief.

Q: How does Sakama Karma forge these fetters?

A: Every fruit you desire for your action is fraught with pain, since all objects you wish for are perishable in their nature. Besides, they have also the power of giving you pain during possession.

Q: Then why are people in pursuit of those objects and why do they perform action only for such things?

A: Ignorance of the truth of things is the cause.

Q: What is the truth?

A: Truth is that the pursuit of these things always ends in misery.

Q: How can this ignorance go?

A: Only by recognising the existence of an eternal, all powerful, all pervading, all blissful, all peaceful, all loving God as residing within your own heart, and by realising that you are not the body.

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Q: O Sriram, O Mother, You have made Ramdas assume Sannyas with the object of consecrating his whole life - in thought, word and deed - to You and to You alone. You have also blessed him with the realisation that You are the sole doer, and that Your will alone is supreme. Now if Ramdas’ mind wanders, who is responsible? How is it, O Mother, You allow Your child’s mind to wander?

A: All, all is Myself, O child; wherever your mind wanders, it wanders in Me and rests on Me.

Q: True; but why then the thought in Ramdas that it wanders? It shows that Ramdas is still not firm in his faith that You are all; otherwise he would not say his mind wanders. Why have You kept him, O Mother, so weak in faith?

A: When you say it wanders, my child, it is only an expression of a process which you cannot understand. I am permeating, pervading through, all; in fact I am everything. All forms are Myself. All acts are Myself; all thoughts are Myself. You cannot reason why and how this is so; but it is the one great Truth. You cannot comprehend it; but you can realise it.

Q: Why should Ramdas not comprehend it?

A: Because it is a thing beyond understanding, beyond the range of the intellect.

Q: Then explain, O Mother, why should there be an intellect at all and what are its functions?

A: The intellect exists, O Ramdas, only to know that you do not know anything.

Q: Now what is this life?

A: Know once for all that it is only a dream. I am one indivisible, eternal, formless Being. You also are the same. To realise this, you have, for a time, to assume that I am the sole doer and that I am all forms; but really I have neither form, nor am I the doer.

Q: What are you then?

A: I am simply incomprehensible and cannot be described in words. This also is merely a dream, that you question and I reply. There are no two but only one, one always.

Q: You say, O Mother, that this life is a dream; but things appear so real, especially pain and misery.

A: They only appear so, child; just as a mirage appears real; they have no real existence.

Q: But the pain is felt; it cannot be avoided; under pain a man cries.

A: So also you cry with pain or fear in your dreams; but after waking you appear so silly in your own eyes for having done so. Your experience there is as unreal as your experience here.

Q: But how to realise this truth?

A: Either by directly recognising yourself to be that which is always free from all pleasure and pain, or, before reaching this state, by realising yourself to be all bliss itself without a touch of pain.

Q: What about pain then?

A: Pain will be no pain to you. It will not affect you at all, or it will be felt as pure bliss.

Q: How to realise this?

A: Meditate always on Me as eternal peace, or as bliss, or as both; then you will have both peace and bliss under all conditions.

Q: What is this state of bliss or peace?

A: This state is beyond Dwandwas, beyond the three Gunas, therefore eternal in nature, with two apparent aspects, the positive and the negative ones. The positive aspect is bliss, the negative one is peace.

Q: How can one attain the positive aspect or bliss?

A: Bliss can be enjoyed only by partially accepting the illusion of the universe as existent. It exists only for a short time. Take it as a form assumed by Me for the sake of play or Lila, and take yourself also as a form of Mine.

Q: Now, how to attain peace?

A: Peace is complete absorption of your mind in Me. For then there is no play to witness. You discard it entirely as illusion. By stilling all your senses and the activities of your mind, you merge in unshakable and eternal peace.

Q: Which is the better state; of peace or of bliss?

A: Both are equally good.

Q: What should your child choose?

A: All are My children; let them have bliss as long as their body lasts and then let them enter into peace.

Q: What must be done to attain bliss?

A: Take the whole universe as Myself. First have intense love for Me; then that will be for the universe as well; because I am the universe itself. Move in it, feeling yourself one with it, i.e., one with all things and beings in it. The result of this union through love is bliss.

Q: How is peace attained?

A: By merging yourself in Samadhi which is complete absorption in Me.

Q: Can one have the experience of both states?

A: Yes, one can remain either in eternal peace or in eternal bliss, as one chooses.

Q: Then this world is both a play and a dream?

A: It is neither a play nor a dream; it is simply nothing; only I am.

Q: You are a puzzle then, O Mother. What is the solution of it?

A: The only solution is to say, “I am a mystery.”

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Q: O Mother, what is Karmayoga?

A: The state, in which action is performed by an individual while he remains all the time in union with me, is Karmayoga.

Q: What are the conditions for such action?

A: Such action is possible only after the attainment of perfect knowledge or Jnana. Then action becomes spontaneous. The Divine energy in all its potency and glory is then flowing through you, transforming itself into action.

Q: What is the nature of such action?

A: This action covers a vast field, like a mighty wave; the main object of it being to establish Love, Unity, and Dharma in place of hatred, dissension, Adharma.

Q: What is the test of Karmayoga?

A: Perfect equality, and welfare of the world are the tests.

Q: How can one fit oneself for such action?

A: One has to surrender oneself entirely to My will. One’s individual consciousness must merge into the cosmic or Universal Consciousness. One becomes then the chosen instrument in My hands. Great works proceed from Me, then, through individuals. The great Vibhutis, the Divine workers, such as the Avatars, prophets, messiahs and saviours of the world are individuals of this type.

Q: Now, what is the ego or Ahankar or the “I”?

A: Ego is a false superimposition of a separate individual entity on Existence.

Q: Why should there be this “Ego”?

A: It is there because of ignorance. I have, in order to have My world-play or Lila, put on the veil of this ignorance and have thus multiplied Myself into innumerable forms retaining in each of them this ego, born of ignorance.

Q: How can this ignorance go?

A: By My grace, at the dawn of knowledge or Jnana.

Q: What is Jnana?

A: Jnana is the realisation that I alone am real, that I am one, indivisible, eternal Truth, that I am seated in the hearts of all beings, that I am the sole doer. This Jnana drives away ignorance, and along with it the ego. It is then realised that diversity is only apparent. All these varied forms which are inconstant, transient and perishable are only the manifestation of one everlasting Reality.

Q: What is the attitude of a Jnani towards the world?

A: A Jnani sees Me everywhere as everything. “That Thou art - all art Thou - O Mother” - he says.

Q: Who is a Bhakta?

A: Bhakta is My devotee who has attained Jnana.

Q: What is the attitude of a Bhakta towards You?

A: “He is distinct from Me, but ever united with Me.” I am in Him and He is in Me. He seeks My fellowship, My company, and worshipping Me through love receives in return My boundless love.

Q: What is his object?

A: His object is to maintain a thin ego of a devotee of Mine, and, by the intermingling of our love, to enjoy eternal bliss.

Q: How does he move in the world?

A: He looks upon the world as Myself, and loves all alike, thus creating a very ocean of love, and ever swimming in it to his eternal joy.

Q: What is the nature of a Bhakta’s ego?

A: It is the ego of a child, a servant, a lover or a friend as directed towards his mother, master, lover, or friend. A Bhakta has “love, service and humility” as the keynote of his life. He is perfectly unselfish. He is ever free from all desires of the senses. He is pure, forgiving, calm, peaceful,
contented, harmless, compassionate, truthful, humble and blissful.

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Q: What is self-surrender?

A: Complete and unqualified submission to the Divine will is self-surrender.

Q: How to attain this?

A: Realise once for all that the Divine will alone is the reality, the sole truth, and that that will alone prompts, actuates, guides, leads, and works in all beings, in all creatures, in all things in this world; that your thoughts, words and deeds are the thoughts, words and deeds of that Divine Power that resides in, and permeates, your whole being. Know that you are entirely under the control of that beneficent, ever-active, all-loving and allpowerful eternal Power.

Q: But doubts arise. How to prevent them?

A: Doubts signify that the surrender is not complete. You have to give them up. Rise above the body consciousness and your doubts vanish. Remain in this state always in waking, dream and sleep states.

Q: How to rise above the body consciousness?

A: By making your mind dwell always on Sriram, who is eternal, who is without form, who is one, one sole Truth.

Q: What about the movements and actions of the body?

A: The movements and actions of the body, then, take place spontaneously without the mind taking any notice of them, without its planning for, or calculating on them. Then actions leave no impression on the mind. Impressions on the fettered mind give rise to doubts. Let the mind find its freedom, purity, peace and bliss in Sriram.

Q: Then how can the Divine will be working?

A: When you dwell always in the one concentrated - nay, intoxicated - state, in Sriram, and all your actions resolve into a perfect harmony, then it is that the Divine will of Sriram works in you. You do not now offer any resistance to the free play of His will. You are in perfect tune with Him. He is ever pure. He is ever free. So your actions, your words, your thoughts become pure and harmonious. Now your self-surrender is complete.

Q: What is necessary, first and last, for perfect self-surrender?

A: Unshakable faith in Sriram and His will. Nothing short of this. Take thorough refuge in Him. Give up all fear, all anxiety, all doubts, all thoughts of weakness. You have put yourself under the guidance and control of an allpowerful being. Let Him do what He pleases with you. Give up ‘I and mine’! Make no plans. Let nothing of the past and future disturb you. Sriram is the sole doer, and you are His child, His servant. Your ‘I and mine’ has no existence. It is all He, He alone. Submit, resign, surrender yourself to Him. Be always cheerful, peaceful and blissful. In this state you should always remain. This is your goal. Sriram is always in you and you are always in Him. He and you are one. This is the Truth.